BB's Rybka/Ippolit comparison

General discussion about computer chess...

Re: BB's Rybka/Ippolit comparison

Postby noctiferus » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:07 pm

It would be a great gain for this forum. I don't know him by person, but IMO he has a wide culture (I remember a discussion about a Propertius poem...).

Every post by him is interesting.
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Re: BB's Rybka/Ippolit comparison

Postby Chan Rasjid » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:12 pm

Charles wrote:
Chan Rasjid wrote:Also, with so much differences mentioned, it seems impossible that Ippolite is NOT an original engine. All the while the anti-ippolites like to think only Vasik knows chess programming, which is NOT very true. There are too many experts around. Milos mentioned he could write an elo 2000 engine in a week... and an elo 3000 engine in 3.

Rasjid



..but couldn't it be an engine developed from studying Rybka 3 code either rev. engineered or from actual source that would account for many of its apparent similarities?


What I can say is that almost all of chess programming ideas are well known.
Nothing surprising that top programs share many similarities. It is doable to write a chess program fresh to beat Rybka 4 just as Vasik, after getting hints from Fruit, wrote Rybka 1.0 much stronger than Fruit and dethroned the long time King Shredder. If the various authors could come up with better and better programs, it is possible Ippolite is written without cheating.

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Re: BB's Rybka/Ippolit comparison

Postby noctiferus » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:13 pm

DaveD wrote:Is there a BB Rybka/Fruit report? :|


see my post

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=52
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Re: BB's Rybka/Ippolit comparison

Postby DaveD » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:19 pm

noctiferus wrote:
DaveD wrote:Is there a BB Rybka/Fruit report? :|


see my post

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=52


Thank you!
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Re: BB's Rybka/Ippolit comparison

Postby Nelson Hernandez » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:44 pm

Amazing on so many levels. A perception-altering experience. Raises a slew of new questions and tentative conclusions.
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Re: BB's Rybka/Ippolit comparison

Postby Matthias Gemuh » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:47 pm

Incredibly detailed proof that Ippolit is not a reverse-engineered Rybka !
The differences are so gigantic that Vas could not have had any doubt that Ippolit is not a reverse-engineered Rybka. Yet he delibrate chose to claim the contrary. Is that how rival products must be fought ?
This BB report is a major embarassment not only for Vas, but for all those who chose to consider Ippolit a Rybka clone without any proof. "Vas said so." has just ceased to be adequate proof.

Robert, keep up the good work by further improving great Houdini.

Matthias.
Aided by engines, GMs can be very strong.
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Re: BB's Rybka/Ippolit comparison

Postby BTO7 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:58 pm

The same source Vas is claiming looks to be turning out to be the same MAN programmer...that proly left his team, thus the/any simularities are more along the lines of hand writing NOT another person copying. Seems the real brains of rybka must of left ....Vas is mad ...gonna show them through his popularity who was boss....now it turning out the rogue x team programmer has something better and Vas is playing on words "source" ....actually meaning a x programmer. Vas you dont own the man. LOL Vas claiming a LARGE amount was taken from rybka and used in IPPO while down playing how much he took from fruit saying 20% which with the way Vas plays on words was proly more like 30% plus and hes charging for what he got free. Only ideas you see the the same in the report came from fruit....otherwise IPPO and Rybka look completely different. I'm no programmer but i have seen enough proof that if i was a jury member ....Vas would be the one in trouble for defamation of character not the other way around.

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Re: BB's Rybka/Ippolit comparison

Postby Rebel » Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:16 pm

The timing of this document could not be more perfect considering the email exchange between Vas and Sven, see CCC.

The chaos is complete.

Ed
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Re: BB's Rybka/Ippolit comparison

Postby kingliveson » Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:20 pm

Matthias Gemuh wrote:Incredibly detailed proof that Ippolit is not a reverse-engineered Rybka !
The differences are so gigantic that Vas could not have had any doubt that Ippolit is not a reverse-engineered Rybka. Yet he delibrate chose to claim the contrary. Is that how rival products must be fought ?
This BB report is a major embarassment not only for Vas, but for all those who chose to consider Ippolit a Rybka clone without any proof. "Vas said so." has just ceased to be adequate proof.

Robert, keep up the good work by further improving great Houdini.

Matthias.


It's clear that whoever authored Ippolit has great chess programming knowledge. One thing I always asked, that people needed to look at RobboBase tablebases implementation -- they know what they are doing. But devout Rybka worshipers only cried louder. The next thing now would be, since we still don't have "real names" we can't accept the program. Meanwhile, Rybka was admitted today to contain GPL Fruit code. But of course, we already knew.

P.S. I forgot to say thank you last time. 33 page detailed analysis. Well Done BB and thanks to Zach for posting it here!
PAWN : Knight >> Bishop >> Rook >>Queen
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Re: BB's Rybka/Ippolit comparison

Postby Robert Flesher » Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:49 pm

Rebel wrote:The timing of this document could not be more perfect considering the email exchange between Vas and Sven, see CCC.

The chaos is complete.

Ed



I have some reservations, however, I think there is no coincidence that they occured so close to each other. They waited for Vas to play his hand, then responded. Maybe ?
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